Never Been Sicker #79: From the Classroom to the ER: A Teacher’s Mold Nightmare

In this compelling episode of Never Been Sicker, host Michael Rubino speaks with Jennifer, a dedicated teacher and mother of five, who shares her personal journey of battling toxic mold exposure in schools. Jennifer recounts the years of health struggles caused by long-term exposure to mold in her classroom, which led to chronic sinus infections, neurological issues, and eventually forced her to medically retire.

She sheds light on the systemic issues in schools, where water-damaged buildings and poor ventilation have created hazardous environments for both teachers and students. Jennifer discusses the alarming increase in health issues among her colleagues, including multiple cases of cancer, and the lack of accountability from school administrations.

The conversation delves into the societal negligence surrounding mold exposure, the gaslighting of victims, and the urgent need for awareness and advocacy. Michael highlights the importance of clean air as a fundamental right and calls for systemic change to ensure healthier environments in schools and workplaces.

Jennifer’s bravery and determination to speak out against these injustices serve as a powerful reminder of the importance of addressing environmental health issues to protect future generations.

Short Timestamp Highlights:
00:01 – Introduction: Jennifer’s story of mold exposure.
01:30 – Early symptoms: Sinus infections, fatigue, and neurological issues.
06:50 – The breaking point: Medical testing and diagnosis.
10:20 – Lack of education and awareness in schools.
16:30 – Devastating health impacts on colleagues and students.
19:45 – Advocacy challenges: Gaslighting and bullying.
25:30 – The importance of clean air in schools and workplaces.
33:45 – Jennifer’s efforts to raise awareness despite resistance.
40:45 – Call to action: The need for systemic change.

Connect with Jennifer: K4cia@proton.me

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Transcript

Michael Rubino (00:01.019)
Hello and welcome to another episode of Never Been Sicker. I'm your host, Michael Rubino, and today's very amazing guest is Jennifer. Jennifer, thank you so much for being here and taking the time out of your busy day to be here with us. And please let everybody know who you are and why you're here.

Jennifer (00:17.894)
Yeah, thank you Michael. It's a pleasure to be here with you. I watch a lot of your podcasts and although listening to the others who have been harmed by toxic mold is not a

good thing at all and all of us share that same exact feeling of we're sharing because we don't want this to happen to any more people. When it happens to you, it's awful. It pretty much has robbed me of my life and I'm hoping to one day get it back. anyway, so it's a pleasure to be here to get to share my story and my name is Jennifer. I am a

mother of five, school, I've been a school teacher, a special ed school teacher. I have loved my autistic and my down syndrome and my students so much. And it is actually that profession that caused me to be exposed to toxic mold. And my story is that the public schools in America are a very toxic place for children to be at this point and it needs to be addressed.

Michael Rubino (01:28.785)
I can understand that completely. Being in schools myself, having kids myself, definitely we've got a big issue there and it's one that doesn't get enough attention, unfortunately. Even in some of the advocacy work that I do, moldu.org, for example, really highlights a lot of colleges. But this impacts us all across the country at different grade levels, right? And so you mentioned that this affected you personally. Please share.

what happened at this school and how that affected you and any others.

Jennifer (02:04.917)
Yeah, so the phrase, you're kind of a frog in a boiling pot, you know, I go back to because I didn't see, like many of us, and we're not educated on the signs, but I was talking to a coworker last night who is detoxing from the mold, and she said, Jen, I remember when I started working with you, all your sinus infections.

at my worst when I had to medically retire, my brain is still trying to heal. So my MRI neuroquant is disastrous. I basically thought the world was ending. I was scaring my children because I was so, my parasympathetic system was so on fire and inflamed from over 20 years of just breathing in these mycotoxins.

And anyway, so sinus infections at the beginning, but just like everyone else, you just assume the kids are making you sick. Like my students, I taught pre-K. So I'm currently at the end of your book, Mold Medic, and I got that from my provider this last week. I'm trying Hyperbaric Chamber right now to try to reverse some of that damage in the brain.

at Sped preschool, you're on the floor all the time. So you understand that those dynamics of the dust particles down low that were kicking up on the carpet all the time every time we go to sit down down there and we're singing songs and we're breathing it in. I think back to every time I would have put the students on the trampoline, I would shock them and have to apologize because they would jump back and kind of be scared. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I just shocked you.

And then learning the dynamics and the science behind this, that was another sign. They weren't being shocked by other people, but every time that I would go to touch them. So there's just a lot of science behind it that I've learned now, looking back that I can go, whoa, I was very anemic. At my heaviest, I weighed 240 pounds with really bad anemia to the point that my fingernails were concave.

Jennifer (04:31.048)
And I was chewing ice all the time, severely fatigued. My gynecologist at that point addressed it through a medical procedure and I did lose a lot of weight quickly and that helped temporarily. But once like my reproductive system wasn't being attacked, I feel like it started attacking other areas which was my brain.

It's interesting because I like to think about my autistic children and the symptoms that they were, they experience. I experienced a lot of those at my worst. obviously sleep deprivation, I did not sleep. At night, my brain would go off and it wouldn't shut down. I had sensory issues.

very much perseverated on things. This is when it started affecting my relationship with others because I would be stuck on a topic and I like I would go to their house and that's all I'd want to talk about. Well that's a normal adult doesn't do that and they don't they didn't look at it like you have a medical issue going on. I just started people just started saying rude things to me and not like I don't want to be around her and so I lost

friends. I have lost most of my extended family over this because they don't understand and when they go talk to other people especially in our community, our community does not want this. They're hiding this. The doctors, no that's she's crazy don't believe her like the psychosomatic right like she needs to see a psychiatrist.

And so we have a lot of that going on where the mainstream medical community won't address it. So then they go talk to another doctor that says, no, that's not what's going on. And then you look like you're the crazy one. So it's been a hard journey. So those are the signs and symptoms. I was diagnosed with this in 2022.

Jennifer (06:53.985)
And what the final breaking point was is when I went into the physician, I went into that I just happened we have one member of the ICEAI up here. For people on the podcast that don't know, I know you know the International Society for Environmentally Acquired Illness. And she has mentored under Dr. Neal Nathan and Jill Christa due to the fact that when she came up,

Michael Rubino (07:12.379)
Yeah.

Jennifer (07:22.99)
to where I live and I don't want to disclose right now, but she was working off her college student loan and the place they put her in, her whole family was exposed to toxic mold. And she almost died in the hospital. And so when she came out, she had to detox all of her children, her husband and herself. So.

her herself, she has been a patient as well and she had to learn on her own family and now she's out spreading awareness trying to but the pushback in our town, you tell anybody you're going to her, it's like you you.

I don't know, it's really bizarre though because our hospital is anti her. Everybody speaks really poorly about this lady who is saving our lives.

Michael Rubino (08:25.797)
Yeah, no, I mean, think that's.

It's unfortunate. That's where we are today from a societal standpoint. If you're not familiar with environmental medicine, if you're not familiar with environmental exposures, it's in the medical community especially, it becomes this woo-woo thing. And everybody gets lambasted as crazy or into woo-woo science.

You know, the unfortunate part about this is, you there are hundreds and hundreds of medical journals out there. Uh, it's very widely recognized that poor indoor air quality leads to so many different health issues. Um, you know, we have licensure and certifications for mold inspections and mold remediations across the country. Um, in those classes that we all have to take in the continuing education to get that license or certification, it talks about how.

mold is a public health issue and how it impacts occupants in the building in negative ways. And it does talk about mycotoxins and the exposure and what that can do, including being a carcinogen, right? And so this isn't new. The FDA actually regulates mycotoxins in our food supply. They do that for a reason because it's a human health issue. So it's not like this is a hidden topic. It's not like this is woo-woo. But yet...

For some reason, have mainstream medical community people try to label it as such, right? And it's just because they have a lack of education on the topic at hand. They're not given a whole lot of information in medical school regarding environmental medicine, again, unless they are becoming an environmental medicine specialist, right?

Michael Rubino (10:17.105)
That calls for primary care physicians if they've never researched the topic themselves to lambast other people like that or point out people as crazy or saying they need psychiatric help. Unfortunately, this is all too common. Just because it's common doesn't mean it's normal, but it is unfortunately common. I think that's why we want to share your story here today because

what we're experiencing out there in these schools and how it's impacting our health, not only as teachers, but the health of our kids. How that transforms our society is not good. And so we need to do something about this. And I appreciate you standing up for what's right and coming forward and sharing your story in the face of adversity. It's not easy to be called the names that you're called.

to be looked at the way that you're looked at, it's not easy. But you know what? This is where we are. And that's the unfortunate part. We have to do something about it. And it starts right here, right here in this room together, kind of talking about these complex subjects. I wanna just let you know you're not crazy, right? We are experiencing.

pretty significant issues in military housing and schools and colleges and universities in our own homes and something needs to be done about it. So thank you for taking that stand and being here. Are you still at this school? Obviously you don't want to mention the school by name and get you in any trouble, but are you still at this school? Are you working there currently? Are you still being exposed? What are you doing to kind of get out of it and get yourself help?

Jennifer (12:08.317)
Well, what ended up happening if I could just go back to, so in 2022, going into that summer, I was not sleeping. It was bad. Just restless, had a lot of inflammation down my sciatic nerve. And when I went in and I found this provider, she said, so tell me your symptoms. And I said, well,

This is to sound weird, but this is true. I said, my left nostril is a booger making factory and I'm mouth breathing and I cannot sleep and I'm going into the summer and I need to be able to rest and recuperate and come back in the fall healthy for my students. And she, unfortunately, this provider had started making the connections with her. Her, when I said where I worked,

She said, oh, okay. And she ran tests and said, you're inside a kind storm. She said, would you like me to pursue what the root cause of this was, is? And I said, well, absolutely. I'm a proactive person. If you're reacting for something, you're behind the eight ball. Let's get ahead of it. And so...

She did all my blood tests to make sure that I was positive for the mycotoxins, but she already knew because her sickest patients are the teachers that are coming to her. She was starting to make the connections. Why are my employee, why are these sick people? And then she started asking, where do you work? Where did you go to school?

That year she said, Jen, you are one of the top two sickest patients I had that year. And I think it's by the grace of God that I didn't go cancerous. But I am losing colleagues to cancer left and right. Around my classroom, I like to share this, where my classroom was.

Jennifer (14:29.122)
which my classroom for years was full of silverfish. You'll know what that means. Humidity levels above 70%. We didn't know. I knew that, well, sorry. I knew that the building was making me sick, but I needed confirmation because over the summer when I'm in my house, I'm feeling well.

And so it took her a while, but we monitored that. And yes, my mycotoxin levels in three months of being in my home were beautiful. And then I would go back to school. But she sees that in many of her patients that are teachers. She's like, this isn't my first rodeo with this. This is, so she, so anyway, I was inside a kind of She quieted that down for unknown reasons. I was transferred to a different building. So I was

pretty hopeful. My dad was a maintenance guy at a hospital so when I told him I said, dad I think it's my my room making me sick. He had me get a VOC meter and I literally took that VOC meter in my classroom and showed my principal and it read off the charts unhealthy. So they got me, they did get me an IntelliPeer but since then all they've done is brush this under the carpet and made me look out to like I'm crazy.

Because I also did have chemical sensitivity where I couldn't have my co-workers use like Lysol wipes and aerosol and I had a workman's comp claim for that but those employees thought I was making it up. So I've also been bullied about this. Which has been really hard because I have a master's in special ed. I love my, I love to work with autistic kids.

I mean, it's just like a dream to me. And so to get back to your question, that next year I worked in a different building. I ermied that room. I needed to know what I was being exposed to. I could see the water damaged tiles above my desk. And my ermie for bacteria came back with 60 pathogenic bacteria in that classroom with special ed preschoolers.

Jennifer (16:50.056)
The ERMI for mycotoxins was off the charts. I started in that classroom. I took my air purifier. I opened windows and I started getting bullied for my windows being opened. Like the maintenance guy would come in, why are your windows open? It's cold outside. You're costing us money. And, you know, my coworker's like, she's sick. She needs to have it open. But nope, I was a crazy lady. And so I worked that summer.

I was in a different building and my coworker next to me, and this is bringing special ed students in to summer school. She got sick two weeks into our summer and she left and I kept trying to get her messages of you need to tested for mycotoxins. Please reach out to my provider. And she,

What I had heard is she did not make it back in the fall. She ended up in the hospital with uterine cancer and passed away. Well, in the meantime, I went back to school that fall, which was fall of 2023. I lasted eight days in my classroom and I had such a reaction, I ended up in the ER. My liver and kidneys, I was just in failure to thrive. My body was done. It was...

over and so I was in and out of the hospital for not for stays but the ER. I was really struggling. My kids were worried and the night that my coworker Tammy died of uterine cancer and I heard about it, I medically resigned. I said I am done. And Tammy wasn't the only one. I had five other colleagues in that

year and a half die of cancer and nobody is making the connections. And that's just, I, so I, I love other people. I mean, I could have moved on Michael and been like, oh, I'm getting better. And this is all about me. But I started telling people and every single colleague of mine that have tested are positive. So from my classroom alone, I told,

Michael Rubino (18:53.04)
Wow.

Jennifer (19:15.14)
Five of my, four of my paras and all four of them have tested and are positive for mycotoxins. And then that is the only space we have shared. We don't go to church together. We don't, you know, spend any other time together, but that those buildings.

Michael Rubino (19:33.605)
Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that you're, you know, what you guys are going through. It shouldn't happen to anybody.

Jennifer (19:40.103)
Yeah, it's pretty significant. I mean, I've reached out to legislators. I have beat the drum to no success. And there's just a lot of misinformation out there. You talk to some people and one lawyer group I was trying to get to help, he has his expert from the CDC who told him,

No, only people that are immunocompromised are impacted by the mycotoxins. And I tried to explain, no, I became immunocompromised because of over 20 years breathing that in in my workspace. And like I said, we can see the water damage, it's there. You could come in and see where the schools, I've done enough research now.

where the schools and their designs are not appropriate for the environment we're working in. There's literally hills that every single year the water drains into the, like outside the building where the water drains directly into the foundation. And these buildings are over 30 years old. The building I was impacted in is three quarters the bottom basement floor, three quarters under the ground, and it was built 70 years ago. There's no drainage away from it.

Michael Rubino (21:09.509)
Even just what she said that it only affects people that are immunocompromised, first off, that's categorically false. But even if that were true, so what are we supposed to do? Just let anybody who's immunocompromised just fall by the wayside? We're just supposed to ignore this issue? That doesn't really make sense to me and isn't super helpful advice. Unfortunately, one of the biggest challenges that we have

is you have experts or people that call themselves experts that are in different places. She might have been an industrial hygienist as an example. Industrial hygiene, they don't have a lot of education regarding mold specifically. They are obviously in tune with building science. They know a heck of a lot about ventilation. They know the solution to pollution is dilution.

But in terms of mold and its exposure to humans and how that affects occupants of these buildings, the actual science that they have is very small as a sample size. And unfortunately, that gives them the carte blanche to make such claims because they aren't aware of them. The medical literature does not really talk a whole lot about environmental exposures and things like mold, unless of course, you know, they are

practicing and studying specifically environmental science. There are hundreds of medical journals out there that detail, like again, know, the poor effects that air quality has and how that impacts the human body. But if you're not studying those medical journals, you know, you're, not exposed to them. and because they're medical journals, again, they're, not widely taught in medical literature. So we have, we have a lot of challenges here, right? To overcome in terms of just awareness. This has become.

Jennifer (23:00.106)
you

Michael Rubino (23:05.015)
a thing that obviously more and more people today are aware, but we're not anywhere near where we need to be. And if I'm part of the school faculty, I'm part of the school administration and I have experts giving me poor advice, unfortunately that creates a big vulnerability to the population of people that are impacted by this school by being exposed to whatever's inside this school. And I think that's really where we are.

right, is we need to go from where we are and the environment that this can create and the people that this can impact to everybody taking this more seriously. It shouldn't have to be this way. I think every human being should understand that clean air, clean water, and clean food in that specific order are extremely vital to human health. And once we get out of this idea that we need to take pills for our ills,

Jennifer (23:56.109)
you

Michael Rubino (24:02.553)
and really getting an understanding of the root causes of what makes the human body sick, I think we're gonna be in a much better position because right now, clean air, one of the most important things for human health is really never discussed. Not only is it not discussed, but it's specifically gas lit as if we're crazy for thinking that the air we breathe matters to our health. And I mean, that is not only dangerous,

but it's incredibly foolish because we're missing out on an opportunity to thrive by breathing cleaner air.

So I'd love to hear a little bit about some of the adversity that you went through. started talking about how you contacted attorneys and their experts kind of poo-pooed the viability of taking this case. I'm imagining you probably reached out to school members, part of the administration. It sounds like you already did and they labeled you crazy, but I would love to hear about some of the challenges you've been experiencing.

in your quest to make change. You said you contacted legislators too. And just to hear what you're going through as you're on this conquest to make people aware of the problem, I think is really valuable for others listening who might be dealing with similar challenges.

Jennifer (25:27.733)
Well, when you find out about this, kind of, I like to say, maybe have mold goggles on then and you kind of see it then everywhere. you know, I understand that we can get a little hypersensitive to it because I know where my brain was two years ago. My brain was on fire. And I don't know if it was your podcast or a different one.

Change the Air Foundation, right? Podcasts where they talk about volcano brain. That is 100 % what I had. And so the first thing is I just started talking to others. And what I found was utterly disgusting. The first thing I was told is this, they're gonna blame it on your house, Don't go there. It's not gonna be worth it. And I'm like, what?

You're telling me to sit back and work in schools that are poisoning myself and children and not say anything because I'm worried about being bullied? Wait, no. Not to mention these people tax me every year and take my taxes and are supposed to provide a clean, safe environment. And if you were to go to their...

School district website right now the word safe has probably used over a hundred times. We provide safe this safe that safe that I took yearly trainings on blood-borne pathogens Well, what about the air pathogens that I can prove to you on an army? I was breathing in on a daily basis and then the other thing is their their training on safety procedures see something say something that was in their

100%. See something, say something. We don't want a lawsuit. Okay. I'm seeing stuff. I'm saying it. Then I started getting bullied and I'm not the only teacher. So I started talking to others. One lady, six, seven years ago, she was in a portable having major health issues. She noticed all her asthmatic kids in that room started flaring and she was talking to parents.

Jennifer (27:47.963)
This school district put her on administrative leave, whipped her out of that room. She didn't think anything of it. She went into the book room in the school and someone came in and said, no, you're on administrative leave. You need to get out of this building. And then probably obviously someone realized, uh-oh, we can't really do this or shouldn't be doing this. And they brought her back, but removed her from that portable. They went ahead and changed.

painted everything, changed the carpet out, put a different man in there who started having health issues. And so that's just one story I heard. I'm like, then she told me that they blamed it on her shampoo, which I can't believe she would even accept that. Like it's your shampoo making you sick. Okay, no, it's really not. Because why are all my asthmatic students flaring in my room? So then another lady in 2019,

her and five employees were sick in another building and she tested that building and went to them and they, in her words, when she found out, someone got me in contact with her because they're like, you need to talk to this other teacher. And I said, okay, and they gave me her number and I really didn't know that we were gonna talk mold and water damaged buildings. But when I called her, she said, she told me her story about how

They hushed that whole thing and told her, do not be telling parents. You need to know. Well, come to find out what they did is made her look out to be a troubled employee and transferred her to a different building, called in a company to test. This is where I have a problem, Michael, is, and you know, these companies come in and whoever's paying the money, the report is written for that person. So.

A report was written that nobody in their right mind could read, not to mention no fungal report to base off what their readings found for anyone in our community to understand. It was put up in the lounge to get everybody's nerves to be settled down and it was brushed under the carpet. Well, that's the school that I worked in that my coworker got sick in.

Jennifer (30:11.508)
And I did an ERMI in that test and it came back, I did a mycotoxin ERMI, it came back way over the high end for mycotoxins just two years later. So we have corruption in my opinion at the highest level because of money. And when I talk to people, say, wait a minute, we just came out of pandemic that they shut the schools down.

for a virus that was gonna kill us all. I came to you with something that was literally going to kill me and all you can do is lambast me and gaslight me and all these other teachers. I mean, this is another EA that worked in special ed that's positive for this and we've seen her mental decline over the years. She spoke out to the school board and said,

This is happening in your buildings. I was a therapist at a chiropractor before I came to work, a very vibrant, healthy chiropractor, massage therapist, and I came to work for you. And a few years later, my health is in massive decline. she'll text me her shopping list that she thinks she's texting her husband. And I mean, again, the neurological.

aspect of breathing these in and what it does is just, it's really sickening if I would sit down and there is another person working on this because here's another example. One of us made the mistake of putting in a workman's comp claim for this and she's also seeing the same provider that worked on or trained under Neil Nathan.

So she's got a full workup, neuroquant. They found that she's got the blood, you know, she's got the urine, you name it. They, she's fighting this right now because they hired a occupational doctor in California to do a fake IME on her and say that she has sleep apnea. So she's getting double kicked in the gut by an employer who denies

Jennifer (32:39.221)
that this is happening, but yet, you know, can barely keep their health insurance because of so many sick employees with cancer and everything else. And so we're at a loss. I mean, we're literally at a loss because she goes to court in March. She couldn't even find a workman's comp claim lawyer where we're at to help her. And she's got a...

Michael Rubino (33:05.723)
Yeah.

Jennifer (33:07.688)
a lot of issues in her brain. She's got one of those masses that isn't cancerous, but it's really dangerous.

Michael Rubino (33:17.475)
About how many of the teachers have you been able to be in contact with that have all started to experience health effects? I know you did mention that unfortunately a few teachers did get cancer and pass away. Are you still in contact with some of these teachers and are you guys banding together and sharing information and trying to get some rally, some change around the community?

Jennifer (33:44.88)
in contact with I think we have a total that I that I know of close to 30 and then there's a bunch we don't know of that obviously my medical provider knows but she can't share with us because a HIPAA laws and so are we rallying around well like I said some of us have you know one of us went to this the

school board. I went to the union with another teacher who had to carry an EpiPen around because of her anaphylactic shock in the building with anything, any cent. We had to have a zero cent school. Now that she's out of the school, of course she is having hardly any of those symptoms at all. She had to retire too and you know that that's my biggest thing is sharing with people. They want to complain that they have a teacher shortage here.

they don't have a teacher shortage. So many of us are retiring or leaving because we're ill. They have a sick building situation that they don't want to address. But those of us that are being treated, we're all still being treated. And it's like a double kick in the gut, you know, like that one I just shared with you. Every door we go to,

get slammed in our face. So there was a couple of us that went to a legislator. She reached out to the school district the best that we know. We were told that we were crazy so that legislator didn't pursue it any longer. I mean, that's what happens. They shut down the narrative really quick. And so you don't make any headway. And that's what's going on. But...

those of us that are ill, we just keep speaking the truth. We keep sharing with our other colleagues that we can see. A lot of the people that worked in my building end up with dementia. One of them has dementia in retirement. One of them has fibromyalgia diagnosis. Two of them I've been in touch with lung issues. I like to share that. In my classroom was a rectangle. And on the left side of me, that

Jennifer (36:08.56)
music teacher had fungal kidney cancer, goes to the same provider I do. The lady across the hall had a strange liver cancer. The lady in the gym on the other side of my classroom, breast cancer. The other wall is the windows to the playground. And I was found inside a kind storm.

and four of my coworkers that worked with me that I told that tested were all positive for this. There is huge correlation.

Michael Rubino (36:45.105)
You know that saying, there must be something in the water. I think we need to start changing that narrative to there must be something in the air. I can't believe the amount of people that are experiencing health issues that are being exposed to the same air in this building. And I can't believe how much it's being ignored.

Jennifer (37:02.074)
Yeah, so you know it's just frustrating and that that's the one building because someone's working on a cancer list and it's it's off the charts it really is off the charts and in that one building that I shared with you that lady in 2019 was bullied and strong-armed and she was moved made out to be the trouble employee in her her text message in

to me she says, and my janitor, that custodian that she loves so much, Renee, has since passed of cancer. That was brought into the, this building is making us sick. So in that building alone, I think I've talked to a couple employees. We had a new case of breast cancer this last fall of a woman that's been in there a while. My friend Tammy that I said,

you know, she ended up with uterine cancer, she was in a different building, and I get it, you know, people go back to, okay, well maybe they had it in their house, well maybe they did have it in their house too. But when you go to school and you work for an employer, you think you're sending your children and you think you're working in a space that is safe when your employer has safety all over their website and they hound you for being safe so, you know,

If you see it, say it, or say something. And then you do, and you're gas lit so bad because the gas lighting is so extensive. The one teacher, he's a high school teacher, special ed teacher at one of the high schools here that I've been in touch with. He's the one that was trying to get on the podcast too, but he didn't know that there could just be one. He has done his research. He said, we can't even call OSHA because they don't acknowledge it.

So it's like, but they're in charge of workplace safety. And yet it's not a thing. So it's just really so frustrating, but to kind of bring this around full circle, I have found just hope in your podcast. I have found hope in reading

Jennifer (39:26.603)
Dr. Jill Christa's mold book, Shermayne Nugets' killer house book. I just cried for hours after that going, her and my situation match up perfectly, but I was exposed to killer schools. And I also have that call it a curse or superhero sense. I walk in a building and if there's mycotoxins, I'm out. I am out.

That is where I've lost some of my family members because I've walked in their home and I'm like, you have mold. You have mold. I will not be back in your home. No, we don't. There's no such things. Fungus is okay growing in homes is what I've heard. No, it does not grow in homes. So there's that psychosomatic sense too. She's crazy. She can walk in a home now and

since if there's mycotoxins, that's my mast cell activation syndrome, going ding ding ding, get out. We've already been through this before. We don't want this again. And so I am a canary in the coal mine, but you can't convince people that I am just the crazy lady that lives down the road now.

Michael Rubino (40:47.345)
Well, it's a physiological response to the particles that are entering your body as you're breathing the air inside these spaces. I mean, that's what it is. I want to say that I'm really sorry about everything you've been through. Like I said, it's all too common. And just because it's common does not mean that it's normal. I would love to, maybe even as part of this episode, make it a longer episode, I would love to interview some of the other

teachers that have taught at this school that have dealt with health issues as well. Because I think it, we want to, in order to get change, unfortunately, we need to speak volume to people. And they need to understand that, you know, this is a normal thing, you know, just because it occurs a lot, but it should not be normal. And it should not occur a lot. And I think that's the thing, you know.

Jennifer (41:19.836)
Okay.

you.

Michael Rubino (41:45.669)
The statements like fungus in our homes and in our schools is normal and it's not a big deal. Those types of statements are dangerous and inaccurate. It's just because it's normal, because it occurs quite a bit doesn't mean that it should be normal or that it should occur quite a bit. I think that's something that we really need to kind of drive home. The more we share this story, the more...

people see that this isn't just some crazy lady named Jennifer, that this is happening in a community of people and it's happening to people, that's where people start to wake up. Because just like in the legal system, if you've got 50 people in one case that all experience the same thing, it's really hard to refute that claim, right? Versus one-on-one, it's just one person dealing with one issue.

Hundreds of people enter this school every second and they're fine, right? It gives them more ammunition to make more claims that this isn't a thing. And so the more people that come together and band together and share this story, it helps amplify the message. And the message that needs to be amplified is we deserve to have clean air in our homes, in our schools, in our government offices.

and in our workplaces, our kids deserve the same. And the only way that we get healthier and happier as a civilization is if we start taking something like the quality of air that we're breathing seriously. So, Jennifer, I wanna thank you for being brave here and sharing your story. I know it's not easy. Please continue to be brave. I know that it's challenging.

I know that you have people that believe you and people that don't. Forget about the people that don't believe you because the more we share this message, the more people will have to face the reality. And the reality is this, that the quality of air we're breathing, it matters. And the more we neglect it, the worse off we get. The illness factor in this country and in the global community is not good. We continue to get sicker and sicker every single day.

Michael Rubino (44:11.377)
You know, despite, you know, probably being more intentional about our health than we have ever have been, we still continue to get sicker, right? So obviously we're not identifying what the root cause is, and maybe it's about time we start. So Jennifer, thank you so much. Please get me in touch with anybody else who's been affected at this school. I would love to, you know, really show people that this is a problem.

Jennifer (44:19.058)
them.

Jennifer (44:37.007)
Yeah, I will definitely there was a few people that wanted to they might not go on camera for fear of retribution like what has happened to me and others, but I know they their concern is the students and They wanted to come on because they see the students with seizures They get the text messages from the students that say I graduated and guess what I haven't had a seizure since

That is the stories that are going on in our community. And there, again, it's not about us. I'm an adult. I am getting better slowly. It's those future generations that that building is only that much sicker now. A year, you know, like from when that, from 2019 when that teacher sounded the alarm in that one building, there's still staff and students in there.

five, six years later, that is disgusting and shame on them for the gaslighting. so thank you. Thank you for the podcast. Thank you for this community. I've found Christina Bayer and just when I can watch the videos, not because again, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy, but it's like.

you find your new family, even though you guys are so distant and you don't know me, you're my family now because my other family just, it's been bad. It has really been bad. And so thank you for doing it. Thanks for all of us that are speaking out for change. And it's not because we're selfish, it's because we truly care about others and we do not wish this upon.

anybody else. We want to see true change. And the last thing I'd like to say is when I started teaching, this is something I've thought about recently, in a building we might have had one student with a inhaler. I can remember that. You back in 1997 there might have been one student with an inhaler and every so often you'd get a student with EpiPen. That last year that I was super sick in that building

Jennifer (46:56.589)
We had an emergency drill where we were leaving the building and the school nurse mentioned to us that she had over 22 inhalers to keep track of and I forget how many EpiPens but I thought in 20 some years that's an epidemic. That is really, that said to me that says it all. When a school nurse has to and then my brain goes to did they all have those before they came to school?

Jennifer (47:27.638)
So, because one of my teacher friends, she's the one that had to carry the EpiPen around. She has stories of her students by the end of the day just being so swollen in her classroom that she was really worried about them. Well, when they came to school they weren't like that. By the end of the day they were swollen up like a puffer fish. That's how she explained the one student. So we will, I will get.

some of them in touch. Like I said, the ones that are still working probably will not go on video for fear of retribution because those of us that have been speaking out have been bullied, gaslit, and all those other wonderful emotions that come with this, like I said, kind of curse. But then in a sense, it's a superpower because I no longer stay in buildings that are going to make me sick.

Michael Rubino (48:19.877)
And you shouldn't. Jennifer, I wanna thank you so much for your bravery, taking the time to be here today and share your story. And I wanna thank you for listening to another episode of Never Been Sicker. In order for us to get better, we need to unfortunately confront these harsh realities. And we have to do better. That's the only way we kick this. so thank you so much for watching. Please share, like, subscribe, all the things, and let's get this change happening.